Questions About the Holy Spirit

Two questions were asked this week after my message on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. You can listen to that message here: http://www.fenwaychurch.org/media.php?pageID=5

Questions are not surprising!  When the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost in Acts 2, people asked questions (see verses 7-13), and Peter them.  In the same way today, when the Holy Spirit moves, questions often arise and they are worth answering.

For anyone but often people who have come from backgrounds where they have not seen supernatural things before, watching or hearing about some of the things that happen when the Spirit comes can make them feel uncertain or uncomfortable.  For example, on Sunday some people cried when experiencing the Holy Spirit. One young man was overcome by the presence of God and fell backwards.  While it is the person of the Holy Spirit that we are seeking, we acknowledge that certain signs and experiences often are associated with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

If you have questions about what you are seeing or hearing, ask your CG leader about it at community group or feel free to email me with questions - dwhill@fenwaychurch.org

For now, let's address the two questions that have already come up.

1) Does baptized with the Holy Spirit and filled with the Holy Spirit mean the same thing?  Are they interchangeable?

Yes!  Jesus promised the disciples in Acts 1:5 that they would be "baptized with the Holy Spirit... not many days from now."  This promise was fulfilled in Acts 2:4 when the same disciples were "all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues."

In Acts 8:17, people being baptized in the Holy Spirit (which I described in more detail in Sunday's message) was referred to as receiving the Holy Spirit.  All these phrases are referring to the same thing and are used interchangeably in the New Testament.

2) Is it Biblical for everybody to speak in tongues at the same time like Betsy experienced in Zimbabwe?

Good question.  In Acts 2, all 120 people were speaking in tongues at the same time when the Holy Spirit fell upon them so it is certainly not without precedent.

Paul does encourage order when we come together to worship in public as a church.  In those meetings, Paul states that if someone speaks out in tongues he should only do so if someone can interpret it so the whole body can be edified and built up (I Corinthians 14:26-27).

These instructions by Paul point to the purpose of tongues.  Tongues enables a person to pray with their spirit and not just their mind (I Cor 14:14).  Tongues builds up the individual that is praying but not the church unless their is an interpretation (I Cor 14:4).  I have founded praying in tongues to be hugely encouraging and empowering for me in my personal prayer life because of those reasons.

We do need to proceed with wisdom and with Paul's instructions in mind when praying in tongues corporately.  Here's how I attempt to do that.

I would encourage people in our Sunday public worship gatherings that if they pray in tongues they should do so quietly and in a way that will not be heard by others.  Of course if they sense their tongues if for the whole body and there is going to be an interpretation, they should then approach our MCs to see if their is space in the meeting to speak the tongue. This helps keeps order in the service and prevents people who don't know about tongues especially non-believing guests from being confused.

In prayer meetings and other gatherings where guests are not involved, I have found that as in Acts 2, Acts 10, and Acts 19 when the Spirit moves when we gather corporately it can cause many people to erupt in praise and prayer in tongues as Betsy experienced in Zimbabwe.  I have usually found these times empower prayer and build up the body as we all individually feel ourselves being edified by the Spirit.

With that said, we do want to make sure we are explaining what is taking place to those who may not have experienced it before and help them understand and experience these gifts as they desire.

Our Dear American Friends... (A Note from Across the Pond)

I felt this note from a friend from Germany (who is deeply involved in the expansion of God's kingdom in many ways particularly through simple church planting) hit the right note this morning. I need more time to weigh everything that he is saying here, but I sense much of it is from God's heart.  I post it this morning because I believe we need to hear its message and consider this man's conclusions with the election and the state of our nation still fresh in our minds.

David W.

P.s. I would welcome any questions or thoughts in the comments.

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Our dear America – where do you go from here?

Today, Obama has been re‐elected; all the efforts of many Christian leaders, prayer movements, “prophets” and “concerned Americans” who have lobbied, written appeals, articles, books, letters ‐ some have even done films ‐ to warn not to vote for him have come to nothing. Many of them have behaved as if the future of the Kingdom of God is at stake. Well, it is not.

  

Can we, as foreigner who dearly love you as a people, say a few words into this situation? Because it is evident to us that God has a clear plan with your nation. But many don´t seem to see it, and therefore run the danger of fighting the wrong fight, wasting precious time and resources, and even endlessly call upon God to do what he just will not do.

The German weekly Der Spiegel, kind of a German Time Magazine, has a cover picture of Uncle Sam in bed, titled, The American Patient: The decline of a Great Nation. We think this is a prophetic picture. As your friends, we know, acknowledge and admire that America has had a great past. But how will your future look like?

God chastises whom he loves because he knows: pride will come before the fall, and humbleness and brokenness is the only condition he responds to. We personally sense we need to tell you: the destiny of your nation is in God’s hands, not yours. It is not at all about Obama or Romney, it is about God using all the nations in the world according to his global and unchanging plans. Did you ever allow the thought that God in his sovereignty is using Obama like a pawn on his chessboard to humble the US as a nation because he wants to show his grace to a nation gone completely self‐sufficient? A nation that is so full of independence, individualism, nationalism and trusting a greed‐ and fear‐based economy that there may be only one way open to heal it from its idolatry and re‐align itself with the Kingdom of God: a crisis beyond anything that America has ever seen?

In 2008, God has been challenged by a man standing up in public, preaching to the cheers of a huge crowd: “Yes we can!” We watched it; we saw the tears of excitement in the eyes of the people; the statements were received as if coming from the Messiah himself, and the electoral rallies had all the flavor of a religious revival. "Yes, we can" is the exact opposite of the King of kings saying: "Without me, you can do nothing!"

If God is the one who "deposes kings and raises up others" (Dan 2:21), does it really matter what are the names of the current puppets set in place by God that advance both the New World Order and the Kingdom of God? Neither Herod, Pilate nor Cesar were truly important for the development of the Kingdom. That is exactly why Kingdom people do not play in the Second League, but the First, the one that matters. The one that puts the Kingdom first, and everything else ‐ including their own nation ‐ second.

The problem of the current commotion and insecurities arises when even the people that call themselves after God keep confusing the Kingdom of God with the United States of America. And when that happens, especially through Christians with a public voice, then we have truly lost all perspective of the coming Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the predictions he has made that will precede his coming.  

America is being publicly humbled by God; and he is going to use Obama – and those after him ‐ to further advance his agenda that will lead all nations to kneel before that one true King Jesus very soon. If any nation wants to become a tower that reaches up to high heaven, it will be humbled by a God who will not share his glory with people relying on their own strength.

America, where do you go from here? What does this mean for you? The future is going to be very, very rough. Your securities will vanish, the economy will go down, the education system will become even worse, the streets more dangerous, the churches even more divided, the youth even more disillusioned – unless there is a true movement that abandons all those idols mentioned above, and radically repents, makes a radical alignment with the King of the Kingdom of God and his constitution, live the Law of Christ in all areas of life, first and foremost in the areas of sex, money, power and how we “do church”. This is a defining moment for you as a nation. You could go down, as the German journalist of ‘Der Spiegel’ predicted. Or, America could be literally re‐invented by Kingdom people who are ready to implode the prevailing myths about Americas greatness, and replace it by God’s greatness (my emphasis - DW). The King has even greater things purposed and would fulfill those purpose IF those who call themselves after Jesus the King, would turn away from their self‐made religion, self‐made churches and religious factions, self‐made visions of success, and their self‐made, harmless God.  

Can we lovingly but urgently call you back at this hour to begin and initiate a movement to reposition and repatriate yourselves into the eternal Kingdom, by submitting yourself not only in theory but also in practical deeds to Jesus the King, starting to obey the King and his liberating decrees in all the areas that count? You might even want to write a declaration of dependence on God and each other, because by idolizing anything else before and over God, you will become illegal aliens in the country that counts, where we all are called to have our home: the Kingdom, the one place where our true citizenship, nationality and allegiance lies (Phil 3:20). This is the only one country that will not be shaken, as it has an unchanging King.  

If there is any way that we can help you in this great challenge and task – we want you to know we will.

Wolfgang and Mercy Simson, Germany